Curse

Chocobo1 · Oct 25, 2008, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Um wow anyone else think the Rits are bloody amazing in this? I went with a pub team (Yeah, I didn't sync :0) and all we did is me + other rit went to whichever shrine the enemy is most likely to take, rest of the team went around and capped. Me and this rit tanked the entire team while they just capped. This isn't a show off thing, the Rits are seriously amazing with that bar in the brawl.

Also, the monk hate is kinda funny. People are taking it out of context. Of course the bar is bad for a normal monk, but in the brawl it's alright, albeit not the best but at least we dont have WoH monks dragging out the game for 10 minutes.

Edwards · Oct 25, 2008, 08:55 AM // 08:55

I love this format because all of those builds suck in the hands of somebody who doesn't know how to play them, but become really powerful when used by somebody who can use the bar to its full potential and choose their fights well.

Chocobo1 · Oct 25, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Eh I duno, the necro one seems so much weaker than the others, and the mesmer is really just a mosquito.

DarkNecrid · Oct 25, 2008, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Yea, some other people just never learned how to play smite, their loss. If you dont know how to play a smite monk, dont knock it, the only thing bad about this monk build is the player behind it.

that's great good sir, except I have spent considerable time playing a Smite monk for PvE farming and for Smiter's Booning with Thumpers for free wins when it was possible, I haven't been elitist at all this entire topic, you're the one whose saying I don't know how to play basically. (and outright said it just now.)

However, either way you slice it, the Monk build is bad. It's bad because the Ritualist is better. The Ritualist is better because it does more damage and has better healing. The Monk has no prots that make a difference except for RoD which is a subpar prot. Let's look at the Monk's bar:

Reversal of Damage: The whole point people use Reversal of Fortune is because it's a skill that you can use to make up for a mistake. Maybe you'll get lag or screw up, no one is perfect, so people throw RoF to make themselves look perfect. Reversal of Damage doesn't serve this purpose, in fact all you do is throw a light damage packet to a possible random target if multiple people are hitting you/your target. Without Smiter's Boon or Divine Boon (or both) this skill is terrible and not worth the energy investment.

Smite Hex: 1 of your only tools that is unique to you amongst the costume brawl, too bad it has a long recharge that makes it useless compared to the 2 hexers which all have quick recharging hexes. A Necro can just cover Faintheartedness over and over again and you won't be able to do anything. Not so useful except versus a solitary Mesmer not getting backed up at all.

Smite Condition: The other tool that is unique in this years CB. It is just 1 second faster than the Blind application this year, and all the Deep Wounds are nice and quick to be applied anyways. It's handy, but it's not defining as making the entire bar good either.

NOTE: The damage of the above 2 skills isn't worth the energy cost either and the DF heal is subpar cause the Monk has 9 in it.

Healing Breeze: I could go on about how this is a Rip waiting to happen, how the energy cost per health gained is inefficient, how it takes so long to actually heal you and it'll rarely actually happen, but I won't, because anyone who isn't a godawful player (read: Wammo) knows Healing Breeze is one of the worst skills in the Healing Prayers line that is outdone by everything on the Rit's bar.

Vigorous Spirit: Would actually be useful if all the damage bars weren't spike bars, but since they are, it's pretty much useless.

Bane Signet: Has the worst damage per second output in the game nearly, has an effect that will screw up your Assassin if you don't call it or he isn't aware enough (yay for no vent).

Signet of Judgment: Most useful skill on the entire bar.

Castigation Signet: See bane signet but addon the fact that the effect is useless if you know how to weapon swap.

The Monk bar is damage that is outdone by everyone else (hey thanks for not arguing this point at all! Seriously, even the Mesmer does more damage than you do.), that has heals that combat pressure that no one is outputting (meaning your heals very rarely matter except in a 1v1 situation which is rather stupid to be thinking about), and is a bar that is deliberately gimped and made the worst bar in the mode to keep the mode working (see: Izzy's talk page archives.)

Meanwhile, the Ritualist has a strong e-management and self heal spell that does more damage than anything on your bar, one of the strongest PvP legal attack damage bonus spells in the game that isn't strippable, another heal that outdoes anything on the Monks bar, the strongest most broken unstrippable defensive protection spell in the entire game, another spell that does just barely slightly less damage than anything the Monk has and gives you energy, an AoE Party Heal that outheals all the Monks stuff combined instantly, a nice DoT, and a spirit which adds considerable pressure because its lifestealing.

:hm: I wonder which one is better.

EDIT:
And again, just because you can win with it doesn't make it not-bad. The Ritualist is a superior option in every single way, and you can win with anything (see: 4 skill Monk bar on last page), but that doesn't make it not bad. The Monk bar is terrible, izzy says its terrible, and it's made terrible on purpose. Yes, it's possible to kill something with it. Yes, it's easily possible to beat bad players with it (like say, the people who are theoretically attacking you while you spam RoD on yourself.). No, it is not a good bar because it can do either of those things.

Chocobo1 · Oct 25, 2008, 09:42 AM // 09:42

No one was debating who is better between Rit and Monk. We all know Monk got kinda screwed this year, it's just that there other ways to play the Monk. Isn't it a nice change that no one spams CRAP HEALER NOOB MONK! Monks get to play another role for once in this god damn game and to be honest it's kinda nice. If you wanna heal play Rit then.

Burton2000 · Oct 25, 2008, 09:57 AM // 09:57

I'd say the warrior is outclassed by the dervish here for sure.
The assassins bar is very good as is the rit and rangers.
Ele is also very strong against any softies so long as they don't have a good mesmer. Paragon would be quite bad as well if it wasn't for the fact he's got fallback. The worst template is definatly the monks one now.

bhavv · Oct 25, 2008, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Please stop QQ'ing about the monk bar. I can make it work good and work against the other characters, again, I am sorry if you either cant or dont know how to.

It is called adapting. If you are unable to adapt to a new build, that is your problem.

I am so glad that I can play monk without having to use over rated WoH or Healers Boon for once, I'm kind of fed up of playing the same thing over and over - Heal this, heal that, OMG you missed Infuse noob monk, /kick next match.

I can make it work and enjoy playing it immensly. If you dont, then simply roll something else and quit the whine.

For one, Healing breeze is highly efficient - when VIG SPIRIT is placed on top of it. I suppose you never played Healers Covenant with Healing Breeze and Vig Spirit in RA, I wonder why it works so well when you arent under heavy spike pressure.

The only place where Healing Breeze is a bad skill is a agianst a team of 6-8 with an uber spike build. In smaller groups which arent relying on spikes, healing breeze becomes a very efficient heal, particulary when used to counter degen.

It may not be good in HA or GVG conditions, but for the purpose of the costume ball it works far better then it would in real PVP. This isnt a top 10 GVG battle for the tournament crown, it's meant to be a silly little costume brawl for halloween.

People that actually take this brawl and RA seriously in terms of builds are just being ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

Ele is also very strong against any softies

So if a monk can solo the Elly, then the monk build is better. /End of disscussion regarding 'lulz munk build is sux'. I can also solo the Sin and Ranger, havnt gotten a chance to solo the other classes yet.

I couldnt solo a rit though, but neither could he, and I always had more health then he did, therefore my healing was better then the Rits.

Calling them bad players is looking at it the wrong way. I just know how to use my build against them. The shatterstone elly I picked of wasnt a bad player, he was doing exactly what his build is supposed to do - Spiking. I just managed to reverse it all against him and watched his health bar go down, down, and down, wait, up with Resto glyph ... too bad its going down again, while my health bar just kept on going up and didnt even fall below 66%.

Productivity · Oct 25, 2008, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

People that actually take this brawl and RA seriously in terms of builds are just being ridiculous.

Do you enjoy losing? I don't hence I care about builds. Maybe you get your kicks out of seeing a 20:3 reverse against you but I don't...

bhavv · Oct 25, 2008, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Productivity

Do you enjoy losing? I don't hence I care about builds. Maybe you get your kicks out of seeing a 20:3 reverse against you but I don't...

No of course not. That is why I like the monk build because 2-3 monk teams in costume brawl are getting 10-20+ consecs in the hands of capable players. I wonder why.

Like this screenshot here that Jessyi posted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

I'm posting this screenie as a tribute to the awesome team I had before we got buildowned.

I had a similar group myself, and my internet dies around 16 so no screencap from me.

Productivity · Oct 25, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

No of course not. That is why I like the monk build because 2-3 monk teams in costume brawl are getting 10-20+ consecs in the hands of capable players. I wonder why.

Like this screenshot here that Jessyi posted:

I had a similar group myself, and my internet dies around 16 so no screencap from me.

I've gone on 20 match win streaks in RA with an empty skill bar. Does that make it a good skill bar?

I Is Special · Oct 25, 2008, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Productivity

I've gone on 20 match win streaks in RA with an empty skill bar. Does that make it a good skill bar?

could you get me a screenshot?

DarkNecrid · Oct 25, 2008, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

No of course not. That is why I like the monk build because 2-3 monk teams in costume brawl are getting 10-20+ consecs in the hands of capable players. I wonder why.

Like this screenshot here that Jessyi posted:

I had a similar group myself, and my internet dies around 16 so no screencap from me.

Do you think this is a good skill bar? Mind you, I don't have any weapons, so the 3 melee attacks are unusable, and resurrect was there for the lulz and I never used it.

If you say yes, you discredit everything you've just said because anyone with half a brain would say it's a bad build.

If you say no, you discredit everything you've just said because it's a bad build winning and it is still bad.

Bad builds can win, but it doesn't make them any less bad.

I also like how I gave you an essay post on why each individual skill is terrible or bad on the Monk build and you tell me I didn't adapt. You're quite the fool Mr. B., as I have said repeatedly I know how to play Smite Monk. You ignored the fact that Izzy himself has said it's a bad build on purpose to make the game type work. You've ignored the fact that the Rit is better in every single way making it a bad build. You haven't refuted any of my points at it, instead just saying I can't adapt, which is very elitist of you. You go on to say that anyone who go on about the builds is being silly, when that is what you are doing is trying to defend the Monk build. If you're going to defend the Monk build, then do it on a statistics and realistic game standpoint (hint: that doesn't mean you won 15 times so it must be good or it beat X/Y/Z so it rules.). Statistically, it is bad. Until you're willing to argue these points, I'm just going to say l2troll because you're doing a very poor job of it.

shadows of hob · Oct 25, 2008, 11:43 AM // 11:43

If a bar beats another bar 1vs1 in costume brawl doesn't make it a good bar..

monkvsele might be favorible for the monk as warriorvsnecro might be better for the necro, at the end of the day, the ele/warrior bar is just better in most situations than the monk/necro bar.

Speed boosts/snare ftw

Gforce · Oct 25, 2008, 12:51 PM // 12:51

I kinda disagree with a lot of people in this thread :x
Playing ranger myself (Got 31 consecs but I know noone cares), it is A LOT easier to kill a rit then it is to kill a monk (dshot WoW svg the other weapon and wielders sucks, sure I dshot hbreeze too but dshotting vig and RoD is kinda hard). Id like having both a rit and a monk in my team though, theyre both strong templates.

From what I have seen the warriors are free kills because they get owned so bad by rangers and eles. Dervish is about the same but with better self heal..

The mesmer bar is pretty strong, it doesnt have a lot of ganking for 1v1 (enemies can just run away) but they can beat all templates in 1v1 if the enemy doesnt run (unless you use Ether Feast on recharge and it gets dshotted). If you can catch someone with the mesmer+any random other template its like a guaranteed kill though.

The necro is trash, they can only kill warriors (but so can anyone else) and possible a bad assassin, they are strong support in a bigger fight but its easy to gank them out (did I mention most necros in CB are like the worst players ingame? Using rip ench on ppl without enchant, trying to plague sig hexes etc)

The assassin has a pretty nice bar, its not instagib but the snare is strong and it allows for easy ganks (If people see your spike coming it usually doesnt work at all though.. steam/dshot/fainth/SoJ/sbash.. the list goes on).

The ele is one of the strongest templates, lots of damage and good physical shut down and SNARES)

Paragon.. worst template ever (No selfheal except from fall back and just bad skills)
And the one I didnt mention yet.. the ranger. Can beat everything in 1v1 (except mesmer maybe) and has a strong snare and speedboost.

In short:
Top: Ranger, Ele
Good: Mesmer, Assassin, Monk, Ritualist
Bad: Warrior, Necro, Dervish
Epic fail: Paragon

ele pl · Oct 25, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

I'm posting this screenie as a tribute to the awesome team I had before we got buildowned.

Pwnd. I wanted moar but i had to go unfortunately.

SpiritThief · Oct 25, 2008, 01:24 PM // 13:24

The D build is most wrothless thing I've ever seen. Wind prayers is lame I wish they used earth.

I enjoy the N at least.

Burton2000 · Oct 25, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritThief

The D build is most wrothless thing I've ever seen. Wind prayers is lame I wish they used earth.

I enjoy the N at least.

Its a wounding strike Dervish which is extremely powerful.

FoxBat · Oct 25, 2008, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Bad builds can win, but it doesn't make them any less bad.

Bad RA monk builds win because it's still better than not having a monk.

Admittedly the rit is insane but, the monk is the only source of removal, and as with stupid smiteway teams, the damage he gets in the process of removal adds up. Also while the rit heals are more efficient, the monk has a whole bar of divine favor-buffed skills that will save someone under a psuedo-spike better than waiting for wielder's boon to recharge. Also that smite condition/hex stacks nicely in groups in a way that WoW doesn't.

Nightow · Oct 25, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritThief

The D build is most wrothless thing I've ever seen. Wind prayers is lame I wish they used earth.

I enjoy the N at least.

Deep Wound and Bleeding are worthless?
Since when?

ele pl · Oct 25, 2008, 01:41 PM // 13:41

@^
its even Deep Wound COVERED by bleeding. Its too imba anyway.